I was talking to a young man who is starting medical school this fall. His tuition at one of South Carolina’s newer schools will be $40,000 per year. That’s admittedly on the high end. On the low end, it runs a paltry $33,000 per year. And this is all after college, of course. He and others like him are taking out loans to the tune of $240,000 to pay for their medical educations. Another young woman I recently met is in residency and her loan payments are around $2000 per month.
Thinking back on my own medical education, it seems my tuition was around $5000 per year. But then, what with all the Saber Toothed Tigers, Neanderthals and stone surgical tools, things were simpler.. These days, I don’t know how students will do it.
The thing is, American health-care is expensive. But so is medical education. As we embark on this century, what are the odds that physicians with $240,000 loans for medical school will be able to offer inexpensive care? What are the odds they will enter low-paying specialties? They might be interested in charity care at first, but when the first loan payments come due all the good intentions in the world won’t change the fact that lenders want their money back. Likewise, it won’t change the hard reality that it will be extremely hard for these young physicians to pay for their student loans, buy a house, have a practice (pay malpractice) and raise a family; at least without making a large amount of money in their practices. And then there’s this striking (but seldom mentioned) fact: student loans are non-bankruptable. Student loans are friends for life, or until payed off. Whichever comes first.
Of course, there are loan repayment/forgiveness programs for those who go to rural areas, or those who enter primary care. And there are scholarships for those who enter government service in either the military or Public Health Corps. That’s good. But the government only needs a fixed number of physicians on its payroll, and state and local economies can only absorb so much of that cost otherwise.
And realistically, it’s very difficult to attract young physicians to rural areas. I know because my practice has recruited them. Furthermore, not every young doctor should be in primary care. Some of them will make terrible family doctors but brilliant neurosurgeons; unhappy cardiologists but delighted obstetricians. We all have unique skills and interests, and physicians are no different.
I realize that the standard response to all of this is, typically, ‘so what, they’ll be rich doctors!’ Not at this rate, they won’t be. And most of them don’t come from riches, either. They’re just kids who believe in the power of hard work, who want to help the sick and who believe that medicine will be a stable, lucrative career. Generally, they’re students who know how to press on through difficulty. But this is a difficulty they probably didn’t expect: pay lots of money for an education that may or may not pay back commensurate with its cost.
If we’re going to continue to have excellent physicians of every specialty, we’ll need to find ways to make medical education more affordable, or be willing to pay ever more money for medical care. It may be that medical education could start after two years of college, instead of four; or even after high school, as it does in some countries (though post-graduate training remains necessarily long in those situations). It may be that medical schools will need to be more lean like all educational establishments these days. Besides,, most of the practical medical education occurs in residency anyway.
Further, it may require that we trim some medical and pre-medical education to focus on what is absolutely essential. This would have been useful back in college, since many of the classes we took were simply designed to limit the pool of applications by ‘weeding out’ those who couldn’t handle the academic load. Let me just say that I have very few occasions to interpret assays of organic chemicals these days; I’m too busy treating patients and figure out how to interpret Medicare billing rules.
We have a difficult task ahead. Medicine just keeps getting better, but more expensive. And the process of becoming a physician is more and more complicated and costly as well. We don’t wants less quality in health-care. But something simply has to give or else educationally impoverished physicians will necessarily charge even higher fees in the future, just to keep ahead of their loans, falling reimbursement and the cost of having a practice.
My son, who is graduating from college next month, decided to forgo medical school because of the debt load. He has wanted to be a doctor for most of his life, but decided that he didn’t want the debt, and knowing that his dad and I can’t pay for it out of pocket. Instead, he will spend a year overseas as a volunteer, and then return to college to get a physcial therapy degree – much cheaper. Seems a shame…
Kyle Swanson
12 years ago
This is very true. I went to a state medical school and still my education loans are $190,000. It makes a big difference in career choices when you see a $2000 dollar a month bill.
Ann In L.A.
12 years ago
This skips over another massive cost built into the current system. My brother is a radiologist and a full partner in his group. He did 4 years of college (class of ’83), followed by 4 years of medical school, 3 years of residency and 2 fellowships. He was then hired to a partner-track position, and was partner a couple years later. In other words, it took him 13 years after high school before he started earning the kind of money we associate with physicians. Today, the schedule is like this: 4 years college, a gap year where you’re expected to… Read more »
Kevin F
12 years ago
We can just do what Britain does and steal all our MDs from poor countries. No English? No problem!
Boy, this nationalization of health care is already reaping some seri0us benefits, if by ‘benefits’ one means ‘this really blows’.
Hey, that was fun seeing you mentioned at Instapundit, cooler than getting in the News!
Heathen
12 years ago
I’m a PGY-2. My salary is less than $47k/year. I owe $290,000 in student loans. Last year, the interest payments alone on my loans were $11,000 and change. I pay nearly 25% of my pretax income simply paying the interest on my student loan debt.
Ed Nutter
12 years ago
Twenty years ago my cousin completed his residency and faced having to pay his student loans. He found a program where if he practiced in one of various impoverished areas for a number of years, the student loans would be forgiven.
He loves skiing, camping, and hiking. He found an Indian reservation with an opening for a doc that is less than an hour away from world class locations for all three activities. He’s still there, long after his loans were written off (covered by taxpayers).
Not for everyone, but probably perfect for someone.
Noah Nehm
12 years ago
My wife, who graduated with a medical degree from Europe, speaks excellent English, and has passed all of her medical boards, the hardest of which with a score over between 1 and 2 standard deviations above the mean, cannot get a residency. In our area, the ratio of applicants to residents is about 20 to 1, and FMGs who have been out of medical school for more that 5 years are systematically overlooked. On the other hand, the local pharmaceutical companies are snatching up these foreign medical graduates to help run their clinical trials, for the same money and much… Read more »
sysadmn
12 years ago
And then there’s this striking (but seldom mentioned) fact: student loans are non-bankruptable. Student loans are friends for life, or until payed off. Whichever comes first.
There’s a reason for that – too many doctors, lawyers, and other professionals had no qualms about a quick trip through bankruptcy to wash away what is otherwise an unsecured loan.
Steve White
12 years ago
I’m also a sabre tooth (class of ’81). I am in academic medicine, and we have the same issues as the low paying specialties have: how are you going to keep the really good ones in academics, with salaries that are 1/3 to 1/2 of private practice, when a young doc has $200K and up of loans to repay? The NIH has a loan repayment grant program but it’s swamped with applicants. Department chairs understand the problem but won’t raise starting salaries. So young docs are stuck, and a fair number — especially if they have a spouse and a… Read more »
Thurman
12 years ago
As a young-ish practicing MD who is in mid-career, I think the problem is multifactorial. For one, private med school costs are out of control. There is almost zero reason to take out over 200K in loans just for med school– this is symptomatic with the naivite and fiscal cluelessness most medical students have. Go to the cheapest decent state school you can find, graduate AOA and save yourself tens of thousands. The second big issue is the massive disinformation campaign about money/salaries that we are fed as medical students. You go to school in a far left academic world,… Read more »
Darren
12 years ago
I went to a state medical school in Texas and graduated in 1994 with $63,000 in student loans, a pittance compared to some. I did a four-year radiology residency (now a minimum of five years, including an internship that was not a requirement during my training period) and had my student loans paid off within four years of completing my residency. That was a good day. One of my partners went to undergrad on academic scholarship, medical school on an Air Force scholarship, did an AF internship and spent four years as a flight surgeon. After that, and with no… Read more »
corwin
12 years ago
I think my tuition was 3 K. I remember screaming about it.I tend to think Repub controlled states have lower tuitions,since they’re not going bankrupt.
Darren
12 years ago
Actually, I think I misstated something in my post. There were enough PGY-1 spots to take the US graduating class, but not every US medical graduate found a PGY-1 position in the Match or in the ensuing Scramble. IMGs still have a harder time matching in the US, but there were not enough positions to take 100% of US grads as well as the IMGs that matched.
This from a buddy who is an ER residency program director.
Chris Link, MD
12 years ago
@Darren, it’s very un-PC to point it out, but women physicians work fewer hours and generate less income than male physicians. And while in 24 years I’ve yet to see a male doc drop out in mid-career, I personally know of probably ten women who quit practicing. Usually they are married to physicians in high-pay specialities, but one was a plastic surgeon who worked for six months and decided she didn’t like it and was going to go to art school. Obviously, student loan debt was not an issue there.
teapartydoc
12 years ago
The prices of all things medical will come crashing down when medicine is deregulated. Government licensing of health care workers and med schools stopped; the FDA privatized and the DEA abolished. The cost of medical education will likewise drop.
samer
12 years ago
the big element of the educational bubble at all levels is the growth of the “administrative staff”. In a sense very similar to the medical cost bubble. the lack of discussion and exposure to the financial aspect of ones career hurts people without access to real world MD (family). So if you are from a poor background and you get feed BS from the academic world you lost big time. The kids of rich families and doctors know better and never sign up for do FP and we will pay your loans. US grads are at a big disadvantage money… Read more »
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My son, who is graduating from college next month, decided to forgo medical school because of the debt load. He has wanted to be a doctor for most of his life, but decided that he didn’t want the debt, and knowing that his dad and I can’t pay for it out of pocket. Instead, he will spend a year overseas as a volunteer, and then return to college to get a physcial therapy degree – much cheaper. Seems a shame…
This is very true. I went to a state medical school and still my education loans are $190,000. It makes a big difference in career choices when you see a $2000 dollar a month bill.
This skips over another massive cost built into the current system. My brother is a radiologist and a full partner in his group. He did 4 years of college (class of ’83), followed by 4 years of medical school, 3 years of residency and 2 fellowships. He was then hired to a partner-track position, and was partner a couple years later. In other words, it took him 13 years after high school before he started earning the kind of money we associate with physicians. Today, the schedule is like this: 4 years college, a gap year where you’re expected to… Read more »
We can just do what Britain does and steal all our MDs from poor countries. No English? No problem!
Boy, this nationalization of health care is already reaping some seri0us benefits, if by ‘benefits’ one means ‘this really blows’.
Hey, that was fun seeing you mentioned at Instapundit, cooler than getting in the News!
I’m a PGY-2. My salary is less than $47k/year. I owe $290,000 in student loans. Last year, the interest payments alone on my loans were $11,000 and change. I pay nearly 25% of my pretax income simply paying the interest on my student loan debt.
Twenty years ago my cousin completed his residency and faced having to pay his student loans. He found a program where if he practiced in one of various impoverished areas for a number of years, the student loans would be forgiven.
He loves skiing, camping, and hiking. He found an Indian reservation with an opening for a doc that is less than an hour away from world class locations for all three activities. He’s still there, long after his loans were written off (covered by taxpayers).
Not for everyone, but probably perfect for someone.
My wife, who graduated with a medical degree from Europe, speaks excellent English, and has passed all of her medical boards, the hardest of which with a score over between 1 and 2 standard deviations above the mean, cannot get a residency. In our area, the ratio of applicants to residents is about 20 to 1, and FMGs who have been out of medical school for more that 5 years are systematically overlooked. On the other hand, the local pharmaceutical companies are snatching up these foreign medical graduates to help run their clinical trials, for the same money and much… Read more »
And then there’s this striking (but seldom mentioned) fact: student loans are non-bankruptable. Student loans are friends for life, or until payed off. Whichever comes first.
There’s a reason for that – too many doctors, lawyers, and other professionals had no qualms about a quick trip through bankruptcy to wash away what is otherwise an unsecured loan.
I’m also a sabre tooth (class of ’81). I am in academic medicine, and we have the same issues as the low paying specialties have: how are you going to keep the really good ones in academics, with salaries that are 1/3 to 1/2 of private practice, when a young doc has $200K and up of loans to repay? The NIH has a loan repayment grant program but it’s swamped with applicants. Department chairs understand the problem but won’t raise starting salaries. So young docs are stuck, and a fair number — especially if they have a spouse and a… Read more »
As a young-ish practicing MD who is in mid-career, I think the problem is multifactorial. For one, private med school costs are out of control. There is almost zero reason to take out over 200K in loans just for med school– this is symptomatic with the naivite and fiscal cluelessness most medical students have. Go to the cheapest decent state school you can find, graduate AOA and save yourself tens of thousands. The second big issue is the massive disinformation campaign about money/salaries that we are fed as medical students. You go to school in a far left academic world,… Read more »
I went to a state medical school in Texas and graduated in 1994 with $63,000 in student loans, a pittance compared to some. I did a four-year radiology residency (now a minimum of five years, including an internship that was not a requirement during my training period) and had my student loans paid off within four years of completing my residency. That was a good day. One of my partners went to undergrad on academic scholarship, medical school on an Air Force scholarship, did an AF internship and spent four years as a flight surgeon. After that, and with no… Read more »
I think my tuition was 3 K. I remember screaming about it.I tend to think Repub controlled states have lower tuitions,since they’re not going bankrupt.
Actually, I think I misstated something in my post. There were enough PGY-1 spots to take the US graduating class, but not every US medical graduate found a PGY-1 position in the Match or in the ensuing Scramble. IMGs still have a harder time matching in the US, but there were not enough positions to take 100% of US grads as well as the IMGs that matched.
This from a buddy who is an ER residency program director.
@Darren, it’s very un-PC to point it out, but women physicians work fewer hours and generate less income than male physicians. And while in 24 years I’ve yet to see a male doc drop out in mid-career, I personally know of probably ten women who quit practicing. Usually they are married to physicians in high-pay specialities, but one was a plastic surgeon who worked for six months and decided she didn’t like it and was going to go to art school. Obviously, student loan debt was not an issue there.
The prices of all things medical will come crashing down when medicine is deregulated. Government licensing of health care workers and med schools stopped; the FDA privatized and the DEA abolished. The cost of medical education will likewise drop.
the big element of the educational bubble at all levels is the growth of the “administrative staff”. In a sense very similar to the medical cost bubble. the lack of discussion and exposure to the financial aspect of ones career hurts people without access to real world MD (family). So if you are from a poor background and you get feed BS from the academic world you lost big time. The kids of rich families and doctors know better and never sign up for do FP and we will pay your loans. US grads are at a big disadvantage money… Read more »
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