Do you remember the furor over the Arizona immigration law? ‘We don’t want to live in a country where you have to show your papers! This isn’t Nazi Germany!’
Everyone was all in a vapor about the idea of showing identification. The same swoon many fall into at the suggestion, the very hint, that we should ask voters to show identification. ‘It’s disenfranchises them! It’s tyranny! It’s jackbooted thugs asking for papers!’
Well let me just point out some recent experiences. On a recent trip, I had to show my driver’s license (aka papers) every time I used a credit or debit card. When boarding a flight yesterday, in Colorado Springs, I had to show my driver’s license (papers) 1) at the check-in desk 2) at the security check point 3) at the boarding gate.
(Do they expect a terrorist to get confused and accidentally pull out his Taliban Visa? ‘Earn extra virgin points for every mile flown!’ Or his Al Qaeda Membership card? ‘Member in good standing since 2011…down with the infidel!’)
By the way, my 14-year-old son had to touch his insulin pump and have his hands swiped for explosive residue. He’s a scary looking guy, that one, with a backpack full of novels and a subversive disease!
When I returned home, I found my Medicare reapplication packet. Medicare is sending this out to various providers to update their enrollment. Here are the things I have to provide:
1) State Medical License
2) DEA License
3) Medical School Diploma
4) Residency Certificate/CME’s
5) Board Certification
6) Curriculum Vitae
7) Certificate of Malpractice Insurance
8 ) Social Security Card
9) Driver’s License (What? So they no I can get a job as a truck driver if they turn me down?)
10) US Passport. (Why? I’m a citizen!)
Let me add that I have never been able to purchase a firearm, or even so much as a packet of Sudafed, without presenting my ‘papers.’
So to all those who are afraid we are inching towards a society of paper-checking brown-shirts, rest assured…we’re already there. So don’t expect me to cry for anyone else having to show their papers.
It’s just that those of us who don’t pose any threat are the ones most frequently shaken down.
Yes, except that you are doing things that you know will require ID. I’m not familiar with all the particulars of Arizona’s law but I think people don’t like the idea that you would be required to have your “papers” at all times. What if you were out jogging and got stopped without your papers? Would that make you subject to arrest?
Steve Spearman
12 years ago
You and I are asked to show our driver’s license to prove to authorities that we are who we say we are. I gladly do this a dozen times a week. It is NOT the same thing as the requirement to prove citizenship. That requirements purpose is to control the freedom of motion and the freedom of place. But the most objectionable, among many, to these laws is that they violate sacrosanct principles of due process. A highway patrolmen in Arizona is required to ask for proof of citizenship for anyone suspected of not being a citizen. What makes someone… Read more »
What is my driver’s license but a tacit proof of citizenship? Can you conduct any business without it? I carry it everywhere I go. How is this different? I understand your point about people’s appearance, but the fact remains that there are large numbers of undocumented aliens; who happen to look Hispanic. There aren’t many Nordic ones. That doesn’t mean the idea is racist, it means it requires rational thought and reasonable predictive skills. My point, however, isn’t so much about immigration as about the increasing burden of government intrusion on normal activities, all of which require ‘papers.’
Ed
Steve Spearman
12 years ago
Whitecap,
The answer to your question is “yes”. If their is a “reasonable suspicion” that you are not in the country legally, you could be detained until such time as you were able to prove your citizenship. In fact, Latino drivers are being detained and arrested in Arizona for failing to carry proof of citizenship.
Steve
immigrantDoc
12 years ago
@Steve As a white immigrant Canadian (and now US Citizen) I can tell you first hand that you are required to carry your papers (green card or Visa documents) and produce them for the feds whenever asked. It is Federal Law. And, in fact just east of Yuma on the I-8 there is an ICE station that does exactly that… everyone is stopped and asked for papers. So the Feds can do it, why not state DPS or City police? They can pull a guy with Manitoba license plates and are not allowed to ask if they are in the… Read more »
Steve
12 years ago
A drivers license is not just a tacit proof of citizenship, it is an explicit proof of citizenship in some states. This includes Arizona. This means that if you are a resident of another state and you have the misfortune of being hispanic you will be held to a different legal standard then if you are Slavic in origin. The out of state Hispanic could be detained and even arrested for failing to prove citizenship. And by the way, ImmigrantDoc, I never said the law was about racism which I define as an irrational bias and hatred of others because… Read more »
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Rant on!
Yes, except that you are doing things that you know will require ID. I’m not familiar with all the particulars of Arizona’s law but I think people don’t like the idea that you would be required to have your “papers” at all times. What if you were out jogging and got stopped without your papers? Would that make you subject to arrest?
You and I are asked to show our driver’s license to prove to authorities that we are who we say we are. I gladly do this a dozen times a week. It is NOT the same thing as the requirement to prove citizenship. That requirements purpose is to control the freedom of motion and the freedom of place. But the most objectionable, among many, to these laws is that they violate sacrosanct principles of due process. A highway patrolmen in Arizona is required to ask for proof of citizenship for anyone suspected of not being a citizen. What makes someone… Read more »
Steve,
What is my driver’s license but a tacit proof of citizenship? Can you conduct any business without it? I carry it everywhere I go. How is this different? I understand your point about people’s appearance, but the fact remains that there are large numbers of undocumented aliens; who happen to look Hispanic. There aren’t many Nordic ones. That doesn’t mean the idea is racist, it means it requires rational thought and reasonable predictive skills. My point, however, isn’t so much about immigration as about the increasing burden of government intrusion on normal activities, all of which require ‘papers.’
Ed
Whitecap,
The answer to your question is “yes”. If their is a “reasonable suspicion” that you are not in the country legally, you could be detained until such time as you were able to prove your citizenship. In fact, Latino drivers are being detained and arrested in Arizona for failing to carry proof of citizenship.
Steve
@Steve As a white immigrant Canadian (and now US Citizen) I can tell you first hand that you are required to carry your papers (green card or Visa documents) and produce them for the feds whenever asked. It is Federal Law. And, in fact just east of Yuma on the I-8 there is an ICE station that does exactly that… everyone is stopped and asked for papers. So the Feds can do it, why not state DPS or City police? They can pull a guy with Manitoba license plates and are not allowed to ask if they are in the… Read more »
A drivers license is not just a tacit proof of citizenship, it is an explicit proof of citizenship in some states. This includes Arizona. This means that if you are a resident of another state and you have the misfortune of being hispanic you will be held to a different legal standard then if you are Slavic in origin. The out of state Hispanic could be detained and even arrested for failing to prove citizenship. And by the way, ImmigrantDoc, I never said the law was about racism which I define as an irrational bias and hatred of others because… Read more »
@Steve: you are my hero. Preach on, brother!
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