So, there I was yesterday, working frantically to keep myself above the water level of the rapidly rising swamp of patients. Navigating, haltingly, the onerous and demonic EMR. So I thought I ordered three nebulizers, but it was only one. The respiratory tech approached me and informed me that she would put them in, but only this time. That I’d have to do them myself for a while to learn, or I’d become spoiled. You know, spoiled. That is, I might spend time with patients instead of the keyboard!
I don’t understand why it’s so much better for me to enter orders than for the secretary, or even nurse in some instances, to enter them. Other people still vastly outnumber doctors in most departments. Further, I still work in two places where I check the box on the form, or tell the nurse/secretary, and they enter it into the computer.
Why was that so bad? Were there that many errors? Were the secretaries that overworked? Is the use of language, as in ‘Mr. Schwartz in room 5 needs CT angio to rule out PE,’ so utterly fraught with confusion and uncertainty? Are physicians of such marginal value that we need to add tasks to the already challenging data entry and (secondary) patient care that we need to be trained to enter orders ourselves? What’s next, perform our own CT scans, so we get it right?
And in an age of nurse empowerment, are nurses so unworthy of our confidence that they can’t do anything until it’s in the computer? I swear, I expect to someday say ‘start CPR’ and be asked, ‘did you put it in the computer yet?’
We have crossed the line in the sand, passed the zero moment. We have jumped the shark and all the other metaphors I can imagine. Charting is bad enough, but I see nothing beneficial from having me sit at the desk and try to make decisions about life, death and disability, all the while trying to figure out how to enter a timed Troponin level, even as the next stroke victim rolls through the door.
‘Something,’ as my patients used to say, ‘has got to be done.’
I can’t believe what has happened to medicine in the last 10 years. God knew when to get me out of the practice. I could not have been typing while trying to analyze what the patient was telling me. I gave an order and it was done by my nurse or PA.. God help you to do what you do so well. It is no different in Florida.
It is sad so many nurses have such an unfavorable and flawed perception of doctors. There is a never-ending discussion on the pros/cons of healthcare before, during, and after the implementation of the EMR and though I have read, listened and experienced only a small portion, I do NOT think it is ideal for MDs to enter their own orders. The longer I work in healthcare the more I feel that something is horribly wrong and the more I feel I am in a constant battle and the angrier I become. I used to get caught up in the seemingly… Read more »
When I was in the Air Force I got in trouble when I called out an order for a resuscitative drug during cardiac arrest and the RN who outranked me refused to carry out the order until I entered it into the computer. When I refused (citing my preocccupation with the dying patient) I ended up spending the next several mornings watching educational videos to avoid being labeled a “problem doctor”. This was in 1992!! Let it not be said that the Air Force was not ahead of the times.
Surf
7 years ago
There is no doubt in my mind that I make more errors putting in my own orders than when I had someone else do them or in the pre-EMR handwritten era. The biggest problem is that it is much easier to click on bed 3 and then order something meant for bed 4 than it was to grab a chart and order something on the wrong patient. The constant interruptions to put in urgent orders also leads to the omission of many other orders. This delays care and causes the department to get busier and a spiral develops.
Donna RN
7 years ago
I cannot believe that you think it is a nursing function to do your work for you in this day and age. Nurses are often overworked (yes, they truly are in most facilities) and have to enter their own documentation into computers. They do not expect anyone else to do their work for them. Yes, they could dictate it to a scribe, but we are not given the option (and many physicians do have them now). Nor would we expect a unit “secretary” to do our work for us (they, too, have many tasks besides answering phones and picking up… Read more »
Neal
7 years ago
A hospital/ clinic can be set up as draconian or flexible- it depends on you administration. I firmly believe all orders should be entered but NOT at the detriment of a patient. We do not require orders to be placed by the docs during emergencies. (For example). Of course some docs try to label all care as an emergency if they can. In non emergent circumstances it is better for the doc (I am an ICU doc) to enter them. IF the hospital has done its work and made the requests reasonable to enter and as efficient as possible. Physician… Read more »
Blondie RN
7 years ago
It is sad so many nurses have such an unfavorable and flawed perception of doctors. There is a never-ending discussion on the pros/cons of healthcare before, during, and after the implementation of the EMR and though I have read, listened and experienced only a small portion, I do NOT think it is ideal for MDs to enter their own orders. The longer I work in healthcare the more I feel that something is horribly wrong and the more I feel I am in a constant battle and the angrier I become. I used to get caught up in the seemingly… Read more »
nurse nancy
7 years ago
In my ED at night we will have 4-5 nurses, one MD and who knows how many patients in any and every condition. It’s stupid for the provider to have to stop and enter a cardiac or septic w/u when any of the nurses could do this.
Nurse Julie
7 years ago
News flash: nurses are professionals with their own scope of practice and endless list of responsibilities. I’m not sure why there is a physician mentality that we need to do your work for you? We don’t work FOR you, we are a team. And we certainly have enough on our plates with all the hospital assigns us. We also have to assess patients, record our assessments and carry out the orders that you do not want to enter. I gather that you would be very upset if a nurse didn’t care for your patient properly or in a timely manner… Read more »
Nurse Julie, For your information I think very highly of the nurses with whom I work. I recognize that I’m a team member. I wasn’t suggesting, in any way, that I sit on my bottom and boss you around. What I mean, and it affects you too, is that computerized order entry is very cumbersome and interrupts patient flow, frequently forcing all of us to spend too much time staring at screens and not enough time at the bedside. What bothers me, as I wrote in the column, is when I have to stop seeing patients and sit down, navigate… Read more »
Nurse Lauren
7 years ago
I can see the reasoning behind both arguments. I think having the MD putting in the orders makes more sense for patient safety, but it’s very time consuming & confusing systems developed by people outside the Healthcare community. I also think there’s a huge difference between “hey can I get an order for Zofran? And “make sure you enter ALL the orders for this patient you admitted 3 hrs ago.” I have zero objections to entering orders when I call you in the middle of the night, bc I wouldn’t expect you to have to enter every single order for… Read more »
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I can’t believe what has happened to medicine in the last 10 years. God knew when to get me out of the practice. I could not have been typing while trying to analyze what the patient was telling me. I gave an order and it was done by my nurse or PA.. God help you to do what you do so well. It is no different in Florida.
It is sad so many nurses have such an unfavorable and flawed perception of doctors. There is a never-ending discussion on the pros/cons of healthcare before, during, and after the implementation of the EMR and though I have read, listened and experienced only a small portion, I do NOT think it is ideal for MDs to enter their own orders. The longer I work in healthcare the more I feel that something is horribly wrong and the more I feel I am in a constant battle and the angrier I become. I used to get caught up in the seemingly… Read more »
When I was in the Air Force I got in trouble when I called out an order for a resuscitative drug during cardiac arrest and the RN who outranked me refused to carry out the order until I entered it into the computer. When I refused (citing my preocccupation with the dying patient) I ended up spending the next several mornings watching educational videos to avoid being labeled a “problem doctor”. This was in 1992!! Let it not be said that the Air Force was not ahead of the times.
There is no doubt in my mind that I make more errors putting in my own orders than when I had someone else do them or in the pre-EMR handwritten era. The biggest problem is that it is much easier to click on bed 3 and then order something meant for bed 4 than it was to grab a chart and order something on the wrong patient. The constant interruptions to put in urgent orders also leads to the omission of many other orders. This delays care and causes the department to get busier and a spiral develops.
I cannot believe that you think it is a nursing function to do your work for you in this day and age. Nurses are often overworked (yes, they truly are in most facilities) and have to enter their own documentation into computers. They do not expect anyone else to do their work for them. Yes, they could dictate it to a scribe, but we are not given the option (and many physicians do have them now). Nor would we expect a unit “secretary” to do our work for us (they, too, have many tasks besides answering phones and picking up… Read more »
A hospital/ clinic can be set up as draconian or flexible- it depends on you administration. I firmly believe all orders should be entered but NOT at the detriment of a patient. We do not require orders to be placed by the docs during emergencies. (For example). Of course some docs try to label all care as an emergency if they can. In non emergent circumstances it is better for the doc (I am an ICU doc) to enter them. IF the hospital has done its work and made the requests reasonable to enter and as efficient as possible. Physician… Read more »
It is sad so many nurses have such an unfavorable and flawed perception of doctors. There is a never-ending discussion on the pros/cons of healthcare before, during, and after the implementation of the EMR and though I have read, listened and experienced only a small portion, I do NOT think it is ideal for MDs to enter their own orders. The longer I work in healthcare the more I feel that something is horribly wrong and the more I feel I am in a constant battle and the angrier I become. I used to get caught up in the seemingly… Read more »
In my ED at night we will have 4-5 nurses, one MD and who knows how many patients in any and every condition. It’s stupid for the provider to have to stop and enter a cardiac or septic w/u when any of the nurses could do this.
News flash: nurses are professionals with their own scope of practice and endless list of responsibilities. I’m not sure why there is a physician mentality that we need to do your work for you? We don’t work FOR you, we are a team. And we certainly have enough on our plates with all the hospital assigns us. We also have to assess patients, record our assessments and carry out the orders that you do not want to enter. I gather that you would be very upset if a nurse didn’t care for your patient properly or in a timely manner… Read more »
Nurse Julie, For your information I think very highly of the nurses with whom I work. I recognize that I’m a team member. I wasn’t suggesting, in any way, that I sit on my bottom and boss you around. What I mean, and it affects you too, is that computerized order entry is very cumbersome and interrupts patient flow, frequently forcing all of us to spend too much time staring at screens and not enough time at the bedside. What bothers me, as I wrote in the column, is when I have to stop seeing patients and sit down, navigate… Read more »
I can see the reasoning behind both arguments. I think having the MD putting in the orders makes more sense for patient safety, but it’s very time consuming & confusing systems developed by people outside the Healthcare community. I also think there’s a huge difference between “hey can I get an order for Zofran? And “make sure you enter ALL the orders for this patient you admitted 3 hrs ago.” I have zero objections to entering orders when I call you in the middle of the night, bc I wouldn’t expect you to have to enter every single order for… Read more »